Hi Kevin. I am curious as to why you would not believe or trust an O/O who is willing to pay more than the same company he works for is willing to pay their own drivers? I have not driven anyone else's truck for 25 years or so, but I have, on occasion hired a driver here and there. I found that I can usually pay more than the company I was working for can pay because I don't have to hire numerous administration, safety, dispatch, H.R., freight audit, and load planning people. I have found that almost always I have also been able to make better money with my truck working for small, mom + pop type of companies opposed to working for the big carriers probably for the same reason. I have worked for a couple big companies and after all the cream is skimmed off the top of the loads to pay all the office personnel and line the pockets of the 'big wheels', there seems to be a shortage of pay at the end of the month! With company drivers, the rate of pay is always set up so the office can usually find a way to deduct some kind of so called safety or productivity bonus to keep from having to shell out the actual gross amount earned by the driver. I, as an O/O don't have any such B.S. attached to my pay schedule...what you earn is what you get! I have to go now. My dump truck driver is here for his wages.

If you could have drove faster and if the EOBR did not
shut you down in a place where fuel has been known to be
stolen,then you would be OK.

Thanks Kevin for the compliment.
Just knowing You are thinking of me
when writing your blog is making my day.

meslippery

Good topic Kevin! If a recovery is in the works (even if it’s just temporary) turnover will be the topic of the year. Driver moral is AWFUL! I've never seen it this bad. Hopefully it'll just be a bunch of lower grades replacing lower grades... however; this may NOT be the case. There are some award winning operators who have had enough! Personally, I think the industry is in for a wakeup call. Too many of the turnover cases will end up being a "lateral move" rather than an upward shift. It's because too many companies have survived the recession on the backs of operators and drivers. It's a shame. The companies that taxed their drivers the LEAST will fare the best. Luckily drivers and operators are not known for unity and solidarity (not implying unions). It's been a sad recession.

One further comment. When an operator has their truck paid for they can afford to pay a premium. When an operator has a truck that is both comfortable and operates with a competitive fuel consumption rate (pre-emissions) they can afford to pay a quality driver to operate their prized possession. If this is NOT the case don't worry the driver will return to the company when his check bounces!

signed... not that slippery

Robert you hit the nail on the head. The only thing is some O/O seem to get one truck paid for and then they drive a second one and so on. Then f course accidents, tickets suspensions drivers quit, well you know all the things company's gfo through everyday, they then face.

Can they afford to pay a premiumsure, to a point. Moral I think the smart drivers are staying where they are. The grass may look greener but, I feel the sod is only starting to sprout now. We can give every O/O out there every tool to use but if they don't want it we can't force them to sue it. Have you asked lately what it costs them to run their truck per mile lately. Most of them will jsut take gas and that's it.

They forget most company's charge a % of gross for Insurance and of course the list goes on and on. That is where the real smart O/O makes his/hers money. They need like all of us to be educated to take everything into acocunt. Just because a truck is paid of, just like a house does not mean it no longer has operating expenses.!

But what dose it cost a O/O when Speed limiters and EOBRS cost
a O/O a 10 hour delay or a weekend delay when other wise they
could be moving. Time is money if your not making money
Why not be at home?

Ok because you dont want to be home
some of us do from time to time.
Robert D. Sheheper

Kevin said when you get in a cab you pay for their time
the meter does not stop just because the traffic dose.

I think most drivers would be happy with being paid
for their time when they are delayed thought no falt of
their own.

That in a nut shell is the problem with some aspects of trucking.

And I am sorry you not that slippery

meslippery

Just to clarify your mistaken comment AGAIN. An EOBR is like a Blackbox in an airplane it records what the truck has done through the mechanical and elctrical system. It does not shut down the truck. The driver shuts down the truck. This eliminates the use for PAPER LOGS, as everything is now downloaded at the Inspection Stations through the EOBR and their computer equipment. YOu loose nothing you gain nothing you driver legal you have no problems.

Kevin, I am wondering what is wrong when an O/O gets one truck paid for and then they buy a second one and drive it and so on. Is that not their choice? I know that a lot of companies forbid O/O's to have more than one truck, so there must be something that really bothers big companies about the pesky O/O's who have their equipment paid off.

It s not a problem Steve I was just stating how O/O do it. If the first truck is not con ually running then it is not creating revenue,If the O/O drives the second truck that should be gravy. If they have someone else drive the second truck and so not, If they are smart business peope they should be able to make money. THe problem is more in the fact no matter what they own, the cost of running a truck is not much different than owning a company. They cannot afford to pay 20% more than what a company pays its drivers, just because they ahve the truck paid for.

I stand corrected Kevin The EOBR does not shut you down.
But if it tells you its time to shut down and if you
disregard it. Well you leave your self open to HOS fines.

Ok you stop for the night at 9:00pm out of hours thats ok you are
2hrs from where you have to load. 10hrs off 2hr drive in the mornning.
9:00am load but overnite the customer had a problem and now your
load wont be ready till 1:00pm but your EOBR is running 4hrs lost.
Your paper log shows you starting at 11:00am to arrive at 1:00pm.
Not 7:00am to arrive at 9:00am
This is not unsafe you can sleep for those 4hrs.
But the rules dont give you any credit for that sleep.
Those 4hrs you can now drive with a paper log could make all
the differnce in the world.
For example you could get home for the weekend and drive your
dump truck all day Saturday. So if EOBR equiped you lose a Full
days pay. So when you say nothing changes NO? just a full days
pay lost.$200.00 for the drivers pocket x 52 Saturdays =$10,400.00
Per year. 10 grand maybe nothing to you but if you put that
10 grand into a RRSP you would reduce your income tax and save
for retirement.

So paper logs retire wealthy.
EOBRs make $10,400.00 less per year.

meslippery

melsippery YOU STILL DO NOT GET IT> YOur just playing with numbers, and trying to justify drivi8ng while it is illegal. The law is the law, jsut like speeding and goin over the speed limite is breaking the law. Best comment for this abusridty is BREAKING THE LAW ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT IS ILLEGAL. TALK TO THE LAWMAKERS and tell them your feelings not here.

No I DO NOT GET IT.{the $10,000.00) with EOBRs
But I do get it it with paper logs.
Seen it myself for 20 years
Is that the best you can do? Is say the LAW IS THE LAW.
Where was the law from 1980-2000 all but a joke.
In the 90s I was getting 41 cents per mile
With the fexiblity of a paper log.
Whats the rate now in 2010 with no fexiblity of EOBRs
Dont You think something has to give besides the drivers pay?

meslippery

It always comes back to speed limiters or EOBRs! Meslippery, you have used them and you don’t like them. Fair enough. Other drivers have used them and do enjoy having them.

Ultimately, they should make everyone more accountable. The driver should not have to fudge his logs to accommodate inefficiencies imposed on him by his carrier and/or the shipper. He’s been doing this for years now and screwing himself (and all drivers) over in the process.

Shippers and carriers have turned a blind eye to this and demonstrated a ‘what we don’t know won’t hurt us’ mentality, depending on the driver to cover up any inefficiencies he encounters. How then, will bigger issues like unrealistic scheduling and loading delays ever be addressed? As long as the driver’s willing to cover up for them, why would the carrier/shipper have any motivation to address these issues?

With electronic logs, your truck’s not going to shut down as you roll down the highway two hours from home. You can still bend the rules, but there will be complete transparency when you do so. Maybe the carrier needs to see this. You won’t have to cover for your company’s mistakes or poor planning any longer. If they value their safety rating, it will behoove them to remain in compliance through better trip planning and taking a tougher stance with shippers who hold up their equipment/drivers.

Ultimately, the transparency that e-logs provide will bring inefficiencies to the surface so they can be permanently addressed. Drivers, in fudging their logs to compensate for poor planning by dispatch and loading delays by shippers, are applying band-aid, day-to-day solutions that do nothing to drive these inefficiencies out of the system long-term. That’s my two cents. Don’t fear the EOBR. Think about what it can do for you.
James

James
With electronic logs, your truck’s not going to shut down as you roll down the highway two hours from home. You can still bend the rules, but there will be complete transparency when you do so. Maybe the carrier needs to see this. You won’t have to cover for your company’s mistakes or poor planning any longer.

That was not my experience.
My Carrier said the same thing as Kevin the law is the law
You will comply two hours out it dose not matter.
You may be right about drivers liking it (EOBRS)
Judging from lack of support for my position.
So I will let it rest after this post.

Further to your post.

Ultimately, the transparency that e-logs provide will bring inefficiencies to the surface so they can be permanently addressed. Drivers, in fudging their logs to compensate for poor planning by dispatch and loading delays by shippers, are applying band-aid, day-to-day solutions that do nothing to drive these inefficiencies out of the system long-term.

People will still make mistakes, bad weather, flat tires will still
happen. Trucks will still break down, boarders will still back up.
Shippers my try harder but machines will still break down,
The UK has had them for a long time are all these delays I speak of some
how been solved there?

If you love speed limiters and EOBRS please put them in your Truck.
Not mine.
If their so great you will a have a competitive advantage.
And I will go bankrupt.

Alas the reason to force them on me is so I too will have to be
as inefficient as every one.
Railways are loving this new technology.
They will soon be kicking our butts on service.

I will go now, got to buy some CNR stock.

meslippery

Thanks for the VOICE OF REASON

Hey meslippery, I know that you are barking up a dead tree, but I, for one, agree with you. I can see that you have obviouisly had the misfortune of working for some company who plays 'the law is the law' card when someone like you or myself brings up a concern for which they have no answer! I used to work for a BIG carrier in the 90's pulling a multi-axle lowboy all over USA and Canada and on one trip, I got a snarky message on the Qualcomm satellite from our Safety Supervisor; "Steve, it is against the law and against company policy to allow your vehicle and or it's load to extend beyond the center line and into the oncoming lane of the highway! You have been reported as doing so and any further reports of such behavior will result in your immediate termination! No acceptions!" (He didn't know the word is 'exceptions'.) No problem, we all know that the law is the law, but, I was hauling a Rock Truck Dump box for a Caterpillar 793C mining truck. It was 25'4" wide! The Texas F.M. road was about 22' wide. I had 3 pilot cars and a State Police car accompanying the load as per Tx state permit requirements. I was hauled into the office after hauling the load 3000 miles to Fort McMurray, Ab successfully and ran through the wringer about breaking the law! My punishment; about 15 more of those loads over the next couple years?!! Anyway, I am on your side and the only way EOBR's should be in any trucks is if the driver or O/O will be paid by the hour for every hour they are on duty or being held under the direction of their employer for whatever reason. I bet that would slow down the driver turnover problem. What do you think?

That load from Texas to Fort McMurray 3000 miles was that
paid by the hour ? I would hope so being over sized.
95% of all my 30 years driving was on the clock.
I did a few mileage runs and at the end of the day
I would take my hours worked div by what I earned to get
a hourly rate. If everything went perfect it would match or
slightly exceed my local hourly rate.(under line perfect It happens
Once or twice in a life time)
But it still was less at the end of the week.
Working 60 hrs on miles was all strait time.
Where as 60 hrs local was time and a half after 44
I found I was more relaxed and happy on the clock
no worries, take your time shipper go for your lunch if
you want I will be here when you get back.
But if I was on miles and they went for lunch I would be
Up set for hours thinking this is not right.
So that and hundreds of possible delays that I have no
control over is why I work by the hour.
The technology today should make hourly pay for all drivers
easy. Resulting in safer and Happier Drivers

meslippery

meslippery... Unfortunately those loads didn't pay by the hour. My truck got paid by the mile back then and after several years of that nonsense, I finally quit working for big companies and dug my heels in and went on my own. Now, everything I do is by the hour and like you say, if the shipper wants to go for lunch instead of loading that last skid to get you on your way, great!..I'll just sit in my truck and charge while the clock is ticking. You want me to swing by the fuel pump to fuel your backhoe on the way?.. no problem, the clock is still ticking. Forgot to tell me the load was cancelled?...that's OK it all pays the same and if you don't want to pay that way, then be ready next time or haul it yourself or call the big carrier who will haul it for a flat rate but has no experienced drivers because they don't get paid unless the wheels are rolling. Hourly pay is the only way we will ever get quality drivers looking to do this kind of work again.

Hey Stephen
Good thing we give up some of our pay so the safe supervisor
can reem you out while you are just doing your job.

Only to find out he / she it mistaken.
Got to love it.

meslippery

You got that right meslippery. I think that this industry would be a lot better off without a bunch of those kind of people. It is strange that most office people came from being on the road in some capacity or another, but when they get their desk to drive instead of a truck, they seem to forget what really happens out on the road! Safety supervisors are especially guilty of this but maybe they are in the office because they were no good on the road?!! No matter whether the economy is picking up or not, I think most trucking companies would do themselves a favour by walking through the office and picking out people, one at a time, and sending them home for a week. If the company still functions properly without that person, get rid of that person and split up the wage that person was getting among the drivers. There are some employees who must remain for the company to function such as a dispatcher, a mechanic, a welder, a fuel tax clerk, a few good drivers and such. Do we really benefit from having all these redundant wage grabbers like safety officers and H.R. officers hanging around the office? It doesn't seem like we need them, for while they are out golfing with their peers, the freight doesn't stop. If they would stay in the office and answer the phone when it rings to sort out any problems that may arise ( usually from something they forgot to do before their tee time ) then they would be worth keeping. If the drivers or the mechanics or dispatchers all went to the golf course, the freight would stop, so they should probably stay. If we took all those wages that are wasted pushing imaginary papers around the office and added that money to the driver's wages, we would have lots of really good drivers wanting to work, especially if they found out that they didn't have to put up with some clown who was no good at driving in the first place telling them how to do what they have been doing for years. With the best drivers applying to work, there would be way less accidents and freight claims, so there would be no need for a bunch of "Safety Officers" to work there! Also, driver turnover would all but disappear, so there would be no need for an H.R. officer either! And, instead of hiring a bunch of computer geeks to keep the system running ( or to keep it screwed up in most cases ), hire a 15 year old kid to create a program that records the deal that the salesman made with the customer, records all the necessary documentation from the dispatch, to the daily hours of service, the delivery of the freight, and automatically posts the appropriate amount of revenue for O/O's or wages for the driver on their statement, and at the end of the month, deposits the amount due into the driver's bank account. This removes the need for freight audit people and operator or driver settlement people. Like I have said before, there is no such thing as a driver shortage, but instead, a shortage of pay for the drivers. Everyone thoght that the slow economy would free up some drivers, but as we all have seen, there are not enough suckers out there that will do it for the piddly wages that most companies pay.

It makes NO sense.
Just like we can drive at 105kph through a 40 kph school zone.
If we were crazy but not 106 on the 401.
But We as truck drivers are used to things not making sense.
It is only when they want to cut our 1980s pay that it starts getting us upset.
Dont Know the answer.
Except work by the hour.

mesllippey

Gentlemen, icouldn't agree more.The sure fire way to keep everybody legal is to pay hourly,who is going to drive over hours when they are not going to get paid for it.If these safety advocates and trucking co's were serious about safety and legal issues they would go to this method immediately.But of course this will never happen.
I do believe that the EOBRS will be like a bomb going off in the trucking industry,i also believe it will be the beginning of the end for single OTR drivers as well as small trucking companies.WHY?.Because we as drivers all know what we have to do to get the loads there on time.With EOBRSthat will cease to exist,hence i believe companies will be going to teams to keep their customers happy.Small companies will have to hire more employees, and buy more trucks just to keep what they have now. Ican see alot of these smaller co's going out of business.EOBRS will benefit the much larger fleets because they have the capacity to throw more trucks and drivers at the customer.Times they are changing boys and not for the good.
Snakebite

I agree Dale bomb going off.
I do think small family run trucking companies could
get around the EOBR, Brians run to Windsor got delayed by the shipper.
So he enters his team driver log in ID at his 14hr mark brother Bill
takes over. Only Bills at home.Bill has his AZ but works in dispatch
so his Id # is often available for his other 3 brothers.

meslippery